Jesus Camp

wow.  I just watched this, and I’m not even sure how to comment yet.

maybe this:  “Abe Froman, I weep for our future.”

it’s not related, but it works.



Filed under I believe the children are our future

10 responses to “Jesus Camp

  1. oh, also tonight, I watched “300” (awesome) and “Half Nelson” (interesting) and yesterday I watched “Blade Runner” (classic), “Little Miss Sunshine” (funny, touching), and “Factory Girl” (probably good, but I was falling asleep) — back to back to back.

    yeah, the Mrs is out of town…

  2. We enjoyed 300. I was a little weirded out by the CHILDREN in the theatre… I mean, eight years old, man.

  3. Could you perhaps be more specific? I have not yet seen the movie, but I am leery of any movie which feels the need to present itself as not having agenda. That alone sets off my Bull$&!t meter, you know?

  4. I too have not yet formed an opinion, I am however only ten minutes into the film….

    Right off the bat I can tell you that ‘evangelical’ and ‘charasmatic’ are two completely different things, and while they nice little captions mention evangelicals, they are absolutely and without a doubt following a group of charasmatics.

  5. Yeah, I’d be more afraid of the radio talkshow guy who has a very limiting view of God and God’s will (power, whatever you want to call it). There are a lot of people who go to church, call themselves Christian, then stear away from anything other than ‘sing a hymn, hear some words, stand up, sit down, sing a hymn….) not that that isn’t a good start….

    I work with a couple of musicians who have, in the past, been very active in charasmatic congregations and it still somewhat amazes me when they talk about the ‘spirit moving’ people, but then I think about the last time I prayed over someone who really needed prayer and how it drove me to tears, surely that could be how I manifest God’s power, by releasing my emotions (which I don’t do ordinarily) it may not be squirming around on the floor making noises like the chick from the exhorcist, but I can certainly say that at those times, I felt God’s presence……

    I wouldn’t worry too much, charsmatics only make up 30% of the evangelical churches.

    Maybe those kids will keep their eyes on the prize instead of becoming hooligans like most of us. They seemed to be good kids with a solid grasp of God’s love and grace….

  6. um, ok.

    you’re right that they seem to be good kids; but they’re spaced out and hysterical, trying to fulfill some adult’s view of what demonstrating god’s love is all about. I’ve got no problem with parables and “Jesus Loves Me”, but with kids that young, it looks like it borders on child abuse.

    when you’re in your teens, and you’re generally mentally screwed-up and your hormones are raging and you’re beyond the ‘totally impressionable child’ stage, then if you want to express your faith this way, go for it. but lay off the kids. kids that young don’t have a solid grasp on anything.

  7. I didn’t have experiences like that when I was a child, but I think it would be arrogant of me to say that these children haven’t either. I have been accused of “limiting God,” but now is not going to be one of those times.
    The fact remains that these parents are raising their children to believe the Bible as the Word of God, and my parents did the same. Child abuse? I am disappointed, really. You are the last person I would have expected to pass judgment on how these parents- who obviously love and enjoy their children- chose to raise their own children. They are following Biblical principles.
    Liberty goes both ways, doesn’t it?

  8. yup, liberty cuts both ways, and I’m not saying the state should step in and do anything.

    now that I’m a parent, I’ll judge whatever other parents I choose, with as much righteous indignation as I can muster. or something like that… 🙂

    here’s the deal — it’s not obvious to me that these people simply love and enjoy their children, they are using their children to fulfill their own motives/strategy. it’s as if I raised my child to be nothing but a sarcastic, skeptical anarchist — (taking what my position might resemble to the extreme), without also teaching them to think for themselves, to reason, to be considerate and respectful — if my kids end up like that, I will have failed as a parent. and you can call me on it if it happens.

  9. here’s the other part of the deal — you might not have been a witness to it in your youth, but there is just as much peer-pressure to be a super-Christian (if you’re in that peer group) as there is to be a party-boy or a slut. maybe even MORE pressure, because it’s a pressure to be good and Holy (again, if you’re in that peer group, it’s a continuous upward spiral — say what you want about negative peer pressure, but it’s not a constant downward spiral — nobody wants to be the sluttiest girl ever or the biggest alcoholic/junky ever).

    “you didn’t feel god’s spirit tonight? what’s wrong with you, are you depressed, is the devil interfering?” “I know she/he can’t speak in tongues — they’re just not in touch with the spirit.” you think that kid won’t want to get with the program next time, even if they’re just saying “mecka lecka high, meck high nee ho” and some dutiful ‘interpreter’ (another 13-year-old) is like “oh, the spirit is saying you are all strong Soldiers of God!” — you think that kids don’t do this?

    trust me, they do. some of them have the audacity to do/say that, and then run off and get high or screw around. it’s a crazy world.

    or what about the pastor that asked me how things were going, and when I replied with a typically teenage answer he said, “oh, typical 2-inch faith…” this after he told me that all my friends from Jesus Camp were going to hell. yeah, that’s not manipulation.

  10. 1) I am not a cessationist, though I think my parents may be. We have actually never really talked about it as such.
    2)Pastors who tell people they are going to Hell are in the wrong. We are all judged by God and only God. We can know what is expected of us through His Word, but the fact remains that He has final say on each persons eternity. My mother had a very well-meaning, but misguided friend comment that it was a “shame your Grandmother never accepted Christ, because she is in Hell.” Those sorts of comments are hurtful and serve no purpose.
    3)Charismatics (people who believe that spiritual gifts of prophecy, healing, tongues, etc. are alive today) are not better Christians or worse. It is wrong to use spiritual gifts to intimidate. Do I think that I need a special prayer language? No. I am pretty sure God understands when I pray in English. Shoot, I have been known to pray in Latin, and he understands that too. My first exposure to Pentecostal worship was in 3rd grade, and I was taken aback– I even giggled a little. As I have grown in my walk, I am much more open to all the possibilities God provides.
    4) Playing the child abuse card was beneath you.
    And before I go any further, I need to clarify this: I believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and if you don’t, then we will probably never get anywhere and I will step out of this discussion.

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